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Carmela interviews Paranormal Investigator, Allen Tiller and uncovers a world of mysteries.


00:00:00 Carmela

I’m welcoming Allen Tiller. How are you today?

00:00:02 Allen Tiller

Good, thank you. Yourself?

00:00:03 Carmela

I’m not bad. I’m not too bad. You’re a historian, and you base a lot of your historic stuff on paranormal, and you’ve written quite a few books.

00:00:13 Allen Tiller

That’s correct. Yes, so the first one was called ‘The Haunts of Adelaide’ and that originally came out in 2014.

There were a number of issues with that book to do with the publisher, and it took me around six years to rewrite the whole book and I re-released it last year as ‘The Haunts of Adelaide Revised Edition’.

The original book was about 120 pages. The new ones about 250 or so, I added tonnes of new stuff.

For instance there is a story about the Squatters Arms at Thebarton and between writing the first book and the second book my team ‘Idle on Paranormal’ had gone back and re-investigated, so you actually get two or three investigations worth of stuff, not just one. So everything was updated like that.

00:01:02 Carmela

Oh wow, that’s excellent.

00:01:03 Allen Tiller

So yeah, so it’s it’s a lot bigger, a lot better. The following book was ‘Haunted Adelaide’.

00:01:10 Allen Tiller

And that book was based on research from a project I did with the city libraries back in 2016 called Haunted Buildings in Adelaide.

00:01:18 Allen Tiller

Which was a world first so.

00:01:21 Carmela

Oh good.

00:01:21 Allen Tiller

The idea was that come over about four months. I welcome members of the public into the library and they could come and tell me their stories. And then I went and research.

00:01:30 Allen Tiller

System and so the book has more stories than what we actually researched. Ended up being 79 stories in there and there’s probably about another 10 that didn’t make the book because they are currently being investigated by police. So there to do with murders and things like that.

00:01:37 Carmela

Oh good.

00:01:46 Carmela

Ah, OK.



00:01:48 Allen Tiller

So I didn’t want to include them because they’re still current and people families are still around, yeah?

00:01:50 Carmela

No, the ah.

00:01:55 Allen Tiller

And you know you don’t want to offend anyone.

00:01:58 Carmela

No, and it could be very upsetting. Still, you know, very raw for them to cope with.

00:02:00 Allen Tiller

That’s right, that’s right.

00:02:03 Allen Tiller

And I I do have another book that’s a book of poetry and short stories.

00:02:07 Allen Tiller

No, that’s called shades of black, so that’s poetry I wrote or 20 years ago, but short stories that were inspired by the locations that I was investigating so.

00:02:12 Carmela


00:02:18 Carmela

All right?

00:02:18 Allen Tiller

Uh, because Kapunda fiction. They’re not. They’re not nonfiction, so one is a short story about an inmate in Aradale asylum in ararat’s and and I can’t tell you what it’s about on air because it’s probably a bit lewd.

00:02:19 Carmela

That’s good.

00:02:28 Carmela

Oh Oh dear.

00:02:33 Carmela

OK, all right mate, that’s OK.

00:02:34 Allen Tiller

But yeah, he’s in there forever for a reason and.

00:02:38 Allen Tiller

That story is called the plumpest. Cows make the best steak, which gives you nothing about what the story is about, but it’s one you have to read.

00:02:44 Carmela

OK, all right then.

00:02:46 Carmela

OK well is.

00:02:47 Carmela

It a bit I find sometimes if I have.

00:02:50 Carmela

To read something.

00:02:51 Carmela

Scary, is it scary that it might upset you whilst you’re reading it or it’s not?

00:02:56 Allen Tiller

It’s not scary in the horror jump horror kind of scare. It’s it kind of builds up to what this gentleman does to other people in there.

00:02:59 Carmela

OK, all right.

00:03:04 Carmela

OK, Ron.

00:03:06 Allen Tiller

I can’t really think of.

00:03:07 Allen Tiller

A good way to put it.

00:03:08 Carmela

No, no, no, you have just sorted set the set it all in.

00:03:10 Allen Tiller

Yeah, so so it’s to do with. He’s basically making tallow.

00:03:14 Carmela

OK, all right.

00:03:15 Allen Tiller

And if you know what tallow is made from, which is.

00:03:18 Carmela

Yes, I think so off the top.

00:03:19 Carmela

Of my head.

00:03:19 Allen Tiller

Body fats and things, yeah, so he’s doing things.

00:03:20 Carmela

Yeah yes, I understand. Yes, I’ll do that.

00:03:22 Allen Tiller

For other people.

00:03:24 Allen Tiller

So yeah, it’s

00:03:25 Carmela

It is a naughty boy.

00:03:25 Allen Tiller

Little bit, yes. He’s a very naughty boy.
Oh dear.

00:03:29 Allen Tiller

So yeah, and at the moment I’m working on a number of other books, so I’m probably closest ones are being finished. Is haunted cuando, which will be.

00:03:37 Allen Tiller

I think there’s roughly about 50 stories in that so far.

00:03:41 Carmela

OK, now that’s that you can do a trial there. Did you use to do the trial around there? Yes.

00:03:45 Allen Tiller

Yes, so back in War 2014, my wife and I got a ghost hunting team. I’ll go to a team.

00:03:56 Allen Tiller

Sorry, those crime towards to come out there and we helped them set it up and then I ended up running the tours and Karen was back up. My wife and we run that.

00:04:05 Allen Tiller

For I think 2 1/2 years every pretty much every Friday and Saturday night and got it established and.

00:04:12 Allen Tiller

You know?

00:04:13 Carmela

I’ll have to say that was pretty dumb. I’m going through it. You do you give a spine tingling in places and there are places I wouldn’t go no.

00:04:20 Allen Tiller

Well, they do say good fun dress you wouldn’t go. Yep well they do say cap under is probably the most haunted town in Australia.

00:04:27 Carmela

Oh well.

00:04:28 Allen Tiller

And it does have that reputation, and the North Kapunda Hotel has the reputation as the most.

00:04:31 Allen Tiller

Haunted hotel

00:04:32 Carmela

Ah, the two together.

00:04:33 Allen Tiller

So you’re in. You know the epicentre of it also.

00:04:36 Carmela

And it was being refurbished too, wasn’t it at the back? But they’re going to do.

00:04:41 Carmela

Some then they stopped.

00:04:41 Allen Tiller

They were going to do some things. I’m not sure. I haven’t actually been out there for a little while. I don’t live out there anymore.

00:04:46 Carmela

OK, no.

00:04:49 Allen Tiller

I have been out to do some research and I’m going back out to do some more soon so I will find out.

00:04:53 Carmela

Yeah, because.

00:04:54 Allen Tiller

Yeah, I do have some things that were found behind a shelf in there which will end up.

00:04:59 Allen Tiller

In the book.

00:05:00 Carmela

Ah, OK, good all right. Excellent, excellent. Well, the reason why.

00:05:01 Allen Tiller

And they’re very interesting, yeah?

00:05:07 Carmela

Uhm, I got you to come on today. Was that just recently we went on a walking trail where such around Salisbury and it was the haunted history of Salisbury and it was a very interesting tour. It took us about an hour and a half.

00:05:23 Carmela

I think and dumb yeah, tell us how that.

00:05:24 Allen Tiller

Sounds better.

00:05:28 Allen Tiller

So for the.

00:05:28 Allen Tiller

Last or probably three or four years I’ve been doing.

00:05:32 Allen Tiller

Talks for the Salisbury Library service. So doing them at Para Hills and things like that. I’m talking about ghosts and history around the place, yes.

00:05:40 Allen Tiller

I’ve written two other tools, so I wrote one for Port Adelaide Enfield Council, which is basically the same kind of thing around Port Adelaide, and then from the haunted buildings in Adelaide. I wrote one.

00:05:52 Allen Tiller

For the city of Adelaide called Adelaide Ghosts and ghouls, that one is a downloadable tour. It’s audio.

00:05:57 Carmela


00:05:59 Allen Tiller

And Salisbury Council decided that they wanted to have something.

00:06:03 Allen Tiller

Different, and I mean there’s other walking tours around, but there’s not really anything like.

00:06:07 Allen Tiller

This so they got in touch with me and I using the Salisbury Library Services history section.

00:06:16 Allen Tiller

I pulled out a whole heap of stories I I knew a few haunted places. The hardest thing with the two are designing.

00:06:24 Allen Tiller

The tour is to make it so that it’s interesting having enough stories that are interesting and generally with a tour like that you want it to come back to where it started.

00:06:33 Allen Tiller

So people don’t have to go too far to their cars.

00:06:35 Carmela

Correct yes, good thinking 99 yes.

00:06:36 Allen Tiller

Yes so.

00:06:39 Allen Tiller

They got me in and we discussed how we were going to do it.

00:06:43 Allen Tiller

So a lot of like I said, a lot of research when consulted with the local history officer here in the town when the city actually always called it a town.

00:06:46 Carmela

Yeah, I can imagine.

00:06:52 Allen Tiller

It’s a city. It is the.

00:06:52 Carmela

K This is gay.

00:06:53 Allen Tiller

City and yeah, so we went through. I went through a Hollywood books. I used trove which is I don’t know if you know about trove. The National Library’s database of Old News.

00:07:02 Carmela

Not all.

00:07:04 Carmela

Actually, I do. Only recently we went up there to look my friend and I went up there to have a look in in Adelaide for for clippings 00.

00:07:10 Allen Tiller

Oh OK, so you don’t even have to go to Adelaide anymore. You can get online and you can go to trove.

00:07:15 Allen Tiller

So it’s a National Library of Australia website if you type in trove. It’s a database with pretty much every newspaper in the state going back to the foundation of the state and you can look by a newspaper by town by year, by name whatever you like, so.

00:07:24 Carmela

Oh my God.

00:07:29 Carmela

Wow, that’s fantastic.

00:07:31 Allen Tiller

I spent hours and hours going through, found a number of stories.

00:07:36 Allen Tiller

And match them up to the ghost stories that I knew, which is what I do anyway. Let’s try and get some legitimacy to why the place might be haunted.

00:07:43 Allen Tiller

It’s not just a random, you know I got a feeling there is history behind why these.

00:07:46 Carmela

Yeah yes, yes, and it’s probably even documented along the way.

00:07:47 Allen Tiller

Places have these stories.

00:07:50 Allen Tiller

It is, some of them are the hardest one was. There’s a story about a little boy called. His last name was Kristoff and Donald Christoff and and that was on John Street. I think it’s the second the last story.

00:08:03 Allen Tiller

And that one was really really.

00:08:04 Allen Tiller

Hard to match up, so I knew that a child had died.

00:08:09 Allen Tiller

I knew what his surname was, but I could not find out exactly where the building was. I knew roughly where it was. It was near what they call the dog leg, which is where you will.

00:08:14 Carmela


00:08:21 Allen Tiller

Listeners might not know about that. John St has a little dog leg at the end up to the dogleg was designed in.

00:08:28 Allen Tiller

In the original plan and then Joseph Broad, broad stock designed that other little bit when the train station.

00:08:33 Allen Tiller

Was built.

00:08:33 Carmela

Right? Yeah, ’cause there has been changes along that area.

00:08:36 Allen Tiller

And there has and originally there were. I think there were four or five cottages there, and in the time between.

00:08:44 Allen Tiller

The foundation of the city. And then now that whole area is entirely different to how it looked back.

00:08:49 Allen Tiller

Then yeah, so finding exactly where this building was was really hard, but using Trove I discovered that the cast off and building had burnt down and the neighbours had come and put the fire out and using the neighbours names I was able to work out exactly.

00:08:52 Carmela

Yes yeah yeah.

00:08:58 Carmela


00:09:00 Carmela


00:09:04 Allen Tiller

Where the building was.
It isn’t a BitLocker detective.

00:09:06 Allen Tiller

So it is, it is and then.

00:09:07 Carmela

Work, isn’t it?

00:09:08 Allen Tiller

That ended up adding a little bit more to it was in the 50s and 60s. That was where Salisbury Funeral Home was.

00:09:14 Carmela

Oh yes, I’ll maybe in saying that now, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:09:16 Allen Tiller

Yeah, so that adds a little bit more to you know why it might be haunted, so yeah.

00:09:20 Carmela

Yeah, it’s also a good. Uh, aside from the paranormal that has happened ’cause the the little boy he he, he does cry in some cases yeah, and or I’ll tell you what if I was working in that building and that happened to me. I think I’d have, although we’d be really heart wrenching I think.

00:09:29 Allen Tiller

It does cry, yes.

00:09:38 Allen Tiller

I think if it’s not heart wrenching, you’d get out of there pretty quick.

00:09:42 Carmela

Yeah yeah, so ah yeah, it’s pretty scary, but I guess that’s the other thing I wanted to know. Like you sort of touched on it, but left it a line.

00:09:53 Carmela

Are there spirits or ghosts as such?

00:09:56 Carmela

Uhm, that can be nasty to people.

00:09:59 Allen Tiller

There are, there are very well documented cases of that. Yeah, generally poltergeist type activity.

00:10:07 Allen Tiller

Can be nasty. It’s not always nasty. No.

00:10:09 Allen Tiller

But yeah, there can be negative things that will hurt people. I only know of 1 case where a man, allegedly a spirit has killed someone and that was in.

00:10:18 Allen Tiller

America and that was to do with a heart attack so it could have been something pre-existing in the person who died. And you know the fear.

00:10:27 Allen Tiller

Made their heart rates so much that it killed them, but it was attributed to the spirit.

00:10:28 Carmela

Kill them all.

00:10:32 Allen Tiller

You often hear people getting scratches. Being that I’m more of a sceptic, I don’t know if you know.

00:10:40 Allen Tiller

That sometimes you can scratch your arm. Yeah, and there’s no rash or or Marks and then a few minutes later there’s marks.

00:10:46 Carmela

Correct, yeah, yeah.

00:10:49 Allen Tiller

So sometimes people will scratch themselves and I always look to see if it’s somewhere I can get.

00:10:53 Allen Tiller

Arm too, so if they can’t get their arm to that spot, that gives it more legitimacy that you know they got scratched by something.

00:10:54 Carmela

Oh OK, yeah.

00:11:00 Carmela

Right, I’m with you.

00:11:01 Allen Tiller

But if they could get their arm there, they may have scratched themselves and not even realise that they’ve done it.

00:11:03 Carmela

Himself noi rod.

00:11:05 Allen Tiller

And then the welts don’t come up for minutes afterwards, and then they go. Oh no, something got me, but.

00:11:10 Carmela

Oh, and yeah, they haven’t realised they’ve scratched themselves. And yeah, OK.

00:11:11 Allen Tiller

It hasn’t, they just haven’t realised.

00:11:13 Allen Tiller

Yeah, Yep.

00:11:17 Carmela

Oh yeah, you more like scaring yourself, aren’t you?

00:11:21 Carmela

You are right now.

00:11:24 Carmela

I I I can as we were going through cemeteries and graveyards. You were explaining the difference. I think at one stage as well, but I’m I remember back in my early youth I bought a blocker land which was off a side street next to the cemetery.

00:11:44 Carmela

And my mum really was unhappy and the fact that I bought this block. I land, you know, virtually 500 metres.

00:11:50 Carmela

From from from the old cemetery.

00:11:53 Carmela

And my father just popped up. He said no, he said. He said, don’t worry about it. He said it’s it’s not the dead you have to worry about.

00:12:01 Carmela

It’s the living.

00:12:02 Carmela

So that that that made her happy, but I guess there are still some people that have passed that haven’t wanted to let go. Yes.

00:12:13 Allen Tiller

Haunted cemeteries aren’t as common as what people think, but there is sometimes for instant W Terrace Cemetery in the city is considered haunted, so where the old crematorium was, which was near the front of the.

00:12:21 Carmela

Oh, OK.

00:12:28 Allen Tiller

Second, gate has poltergeist activity. People report stones being thrown at him even to this day.

00:12:32 Carmela

Oh Oh my God.

00:12:34 Allen Tiller

Yeah, so yeah, that’s an interesting one. Obviously Saint John Cemetery at Kapunda that’s considered one of the most haunted.

00:12:35 Carmela

All right?

00:12:41 Allen Tiller

Closer to here is Uli Rd cemetery at the back top of Craigmore that’s been known as a haunted place since probably the 50s. Lots of people go up there still to this day.

00:12:44 Carmela

Oh yeah, yeah.

00:12:48 Carmela

Yes, yeah.

00:12:53 Allen Tiller

There’s a few noted spirits up there. One of them might be a gentleman named Daniel Garlic, who there’s a big monument to him and he he lived nearby and the story goes that he appears in his.

00:12:59 Carmela


00:13:04 Allen Tiller

Horse and carriage and he comes up his old road and vanishes as he goes through the cemetery. There’s no reason why he would do it, but people have reported seeing that and they think it’s him. There might not be him, but they think it’s him so.

00:13:06 Carmela


00:13:10 Carmela

Oh wow, no.

00:13:16 Carmela

Well, maybe something maybe the reason why he hasn’t let guys he he still thinks he’s home.

00:13:21 Allen Tiller

Well, his bodies there he he founded the church that used to stand in the middle of that cemetery and his property was right next to it. He pretty much founded Julie Berry.

00:13:27 Carmela


00:13:31 Carmela

Oh yeah, OK.

00:13:32 Allen Tiller

So you know he could just be hanging around, ’cause that’s what.

00:13:35 Carmela

Home yeah oh wow. It’s amazing isn’t it?

00:13:35 Allen Tiller

His name was yeah.

00:13:40 Carmela

Oh dear, now the photo I put up on Facebook was you next to a.

00:13:46 Carmela

Bust of yourself.

00:13:46 Allen Tiller

Yes, yes.

00:13:48 Carmela

How did that come about?

00:13:50 Allen Tiller

So a few years ago I was at Zed Ward at Glenside and they had an open day. The old mental asylum there.

00:13:58 Carmela

Yes, yes.

00:13:59 Allen Tiller

And my wife and I were visiting and we met two lovely people. Scott and Carina, aims brother and sister.

00:14:07 Allen Tiller

And got talking to Scott and found out he’s a sculpture artist.

00:14:12 Carmela


00:14:13 Allen Tiller

He’s becoming quite famous at the moment.

00:14:16 Allen Tiller

So he’s a sculptor, artist and one day he asked me.

00:14:19 Allen Tiller

If I would like to do a live sitting for him so.

00:14:22 Carmela


00:14:24 Allen Tiller

He was doing that at the City library where I had just done my paranormal residency.

00:14:30 Allen Tiller

So I said Yep, no worries come down and he did alive sitting.

00:14:33 Allen Tiller

With the clay.

00:14:35 Allen Tiller

Wonderful and then we did a live sitting in Rundle Mall which you will find on YouTube. So I actually Karen filmed it and I.

00:14:42 Allen Tiller

Set it up.

00:14:43 Allen Tiller

So that was for the opening of the history festival that year. So for 8 hours I sat there while he sculpted me and run them all.

00:14:47 Carmela


00:14:50 Carmela

Oh well.
So bummed

00:14:53 Allen Tiller

And I stood there most of the time. But the interesting thing was.

00:14:54 Carmela

Oh, OK.

00:14:57 Allen Tiller

Scott, let children come up and touch the clay.

00:15:00 Allen Tiller

So on the statue there is actually fingerprints. From that day he left them all on the statue. If it’s yeah, he said it’s part of history. So if you look closely, you can actually see them.

00:15:03 Carmela

Oh, today that’s actually a great idea.

00:15:10 Carmela

No excellent.

00:15:11 Allen Tiller

And then what was next? I think we did a sitting at his house and we did 4.

00:15:15 Allen Tiller

Settings all up.

00:15:15 Allen Tiller

Yes, and then it debuted in the City Library. We had an opening for it.

00:15:20 Allen Tiller

And then after it finished there.

00:15:23 Allen Tiller

I think it showed in.

00:15:25 Allen Tiller

The arts, I can’t think what it’s called. The South Australian Royal Society for Arts Building on institute on North Terrace.

00:15:30 Carmela

Uhm, yes, I think so, yes.

00:15:33 Allen Tiller

And then Scott messaged me one day and said I’d really like.

00:15:36 Allen Tiller

To give you the bust.

00:15:38 Carmela

Oh well.

00:15:38 Allen Tiller

And he gave me the bus. So now it sits in my office at home.

00:15:41 Carmela

Oh wonderful.

00:15:41 Allen Tiller

I’ve had it on display at the goal a library and it’s been on display somewhere else.

00:15:47 Allen Tiller

Can’t can’t quite remember where else that’s been, so every History Month since it’s been made. It’s actually.

00:15:52 Allen Tiller

Been on display.

00:15:52 Carmela

Ah, that’s nice, that’s.

00:15:53 Allen Tiller

For now, yeah, it’s it’s in my office. It’s it’s behind me. It doesn’t sit in front of me because it’s weird looking at yourself.

00:15:54 Carmela

Good yeah.

00:15:56 Carmela

Yeah no.

00:16:00 Carmela

Yeah, it’s funny.

00:16:01 Allen Tiller

Yeah it is a bit strange.

00:16:03 Allen Tiller

But yeah, so yeah, it’s it’s in my office. And yeah, Scott teams as the artist.

00:16:06 Carmela

No wonderful, excellent. I actually thought that I had seen it as I went down Rundle more. I’m wondering whether or might have been down there when that was happening. I’m not sure, but.

00:16:17 Carmela

Uhm, I in my mind I had it had that bus was actually still there and run them.

00:16:24 Allen Tiller

All we we’re in the golden place canopy. When he he did that live sitting and then it was in the city library for probably a good month, if not a little bit more than a month.

00:16:28 Carmela

OK, yeah.

00:16:32 Carmela

Yeah, OK.

00:16:33 Allen Tiller

And it was, as you came in the front doors. It was literally right in front of you. This first thing you saw.

00:16:36 Carmela

Yeah, well, I mean, that’s that’s.

00:16:39 Carmela

A really nice on a reason.

00:16:40 Allen Tiller

It is huge on a huge honour and him giving it to me was a big surprise and and yeah.

00:16:40 Carmela

To have that done.

00:16:44 Carmela

Yeah yes yes.

00:16:47 Allen Tiller

People have said, you know, what are you gonna do with it? You know it’s bronze it.

00:16:50 Allen Tiller

Will last for 500 years so.

00:16:53 Allen Tiller

So you know family heirloom I suppose.

00:16:56 Carmela

Just put it in the bag.

00:16:57 Carmela

Where you’re ready to take.

00:16:58 Carmela

It somewhere and you put it there and yeah.

00:16:58 Allen Tiller

It is, it is huge, it is.

00:17:01 Allen Tiller

Way bigger than me. It doesn’t weigh very much. Surprisingly, no. The plinth that it’s on weighs more than the bus.

00:17:04 Carmela

Oh really, OK.

00:17:07 Allen Tiller

Does so when I had it on display in the Gorla library last History Month, people could go up and take photos and they could touch it and it’s.

00:17:15 Allen Tiller

On the plate that’s on like a wad that comes out of the plinth and you can actually turn.

00:17:18 Allen Tiller

The statue around.

00:17:19 Allen Tiller

Because it’s follow and the other side of it looks like a Dementor from Harry Potter movies. And that’s just by accident purely by accident. But it actually does look like something from Harry Potter, which is interesting because my one of my nicknames is paranormal Hagrid so.

00:17:19 Carmela

Yeah, yeah.

00:17:24 Carmela

Oh, really.

00:17:25 Carmela

Boy action yeah yeah.

00:17:32 Carmela

Oh, really.

00:17:34 Carmela

There you go.

00:17:35 Carmela

I must I.

00:17:36 Carmela

Must wanted these days. I’ve started watching the Harry Potter stuff, but I have never really got in.

00:17:42 Carmela

To it, I’ve now finally got all the books through getting in through OP shops, so have to actually start reading them.

00:17:51 Carmela

Might be leaving it a bit late in the long in the tooth or whatever to.

00:17:55 Carmela

Start but anyway.

00:17:56 Allen Tiller

It is an interesting series.

00:17:57 Carmela

It is an interesting series.

00:18:00 Carmela

We’re back and we’re talking to Alan Taylor about the paranormal and his. Well that’s his passion and his livelihood is history.

00:18:11 Carmela

But firstly, we’re just going to ask that you know, that’s that is his passion. How did you come about being involved and?

00:18:19 Carmela

Foremost, how do you make a living from it?

00:18:23 Allen Tiller

I got into this through genealogy, so back in my teens I was right into looking up family history. I still am and and I I found myself in cemeteries a lot, and at the time I lived in Queensland and.

00:18:37 Allen Tiller

And I was at a cemetery looking people up and I saw a ghost tour. So I went on the Ghost Tour and they started talking about the people I’ve been researching.

00:18:45 Allen Tiller

But they were making up stories that weren’t true about.

00:18:47 Allen Tiller

Their life, and I’m saying they’re going hang on a minute, that’s not.

00:18:50 Allen Tiller

What happened and then I found there’s a whole world of people that go out hunting for ghosts.

00:18:55 Allen Tiller

And that piqued my interest, I was already, you know, TV fan X files. All that kind of stuff, so I already had an interest like in the paranormal.

00:19:01 Carmela


00:19:04 Allen Tiller

I I tried to join some teams up there and most paranormal teams are very insular. They don’t look for people outside their own little click.

00:19:12 Allen Tiller

I found it very hard.

00:19:13 Allen Tiller

I moved back to South Australia and founded my own team in 2007 called Idle on Paranormal.

00:19:18 Carmela


00:19:18 Allen Tiller

And my mission was to make the paranormal more accessible. So I started researching why things happen the way they do psychology behind things.

00:19:31 Allen Tiller

And putting them up on my.

00:19:32 Allen Tiller

Website For people to read.

00:19:33 Allen Tiller

For free, so they could also learn from it, ’cause these were the things I wanted.

00:19:37 Allen Tiller

To learn people wouldn’t know.

00:19:38 Carmela

And you couldn’t get ahold of me.

00:19:39 Allen Tiller

People would teach you these things and I always had a strong interest in history and it just kind of happens things. Just it’s a strange thing. Things just happen.

00:19:50 Allen Tiller

In my life I don’t go looking for things, things just land.

00:19:53 Allen Tiller

On me so.

00:19:53 Carmela


00:19:54 Allen Tiller

The TV show I did haunting Australia that just happened to roll into my lap. I was not looking to do TV at the time and I had to be convinced to do the show, ’cause I I wasn’t really interested so I did that.

00:20:06 Allen Tiller

That opened up more doors obviously. Yeah, at the time I was a forklift driver. Believe it or not, in warehousing wow and I had a.

00:20:14 Allen Tiller

Back injury and decided that I would get retrained and so when I was at the City library I thought I could do this job. So I went to TAFE and did a library study course and got my diploma.

00:20:28 Allen Tiller

And since then, I’ve been working in libraries as a library tech, so do most of the jobs that librarians do that pays the bills.

00:20:32 Carmela

What 4?

00:20:36 Allen Tiller

And in my spare time when I’m not studying at university, that’s when I do the ghost hunting stuff. Wow, there’s very.

00:20:42 Carmela

So how much time to get to sleep?

00:20:45 Allen Tiller

Not as much as I’d like. I’m generally up very early in the morning. Yeah, because that’s when I study best. Yes, and.

00:20:54 Allen Tiller

You know, I’m I go to bed around 10:00 PM, but I’m up at like 7 yeah I don’t know how many hours sleep that is probably not many.

00:21:00 Carmela

Well, it’s probably not a lot if you’re doing that every day.

00:21:00 Allen Tiller

It’s probably enough, yes, yeah. So yeah, you don’t like there’s not too many people who make money from the paranormal, especially in Australia. It’s a very small industry here. People that own tool companies might.

00:21:03 Carmela

It’s probably enough, yeah?

00:21:15 Allen Tiller

In America is a different story. Because America has paranormal celebrities. So there’s people like a gentleman called Zak Bagans, who started a show called Ghost Adventures and that shows in.

00:21:25 Carmela


00:21:27 Allen Tiller

I’m not sure how many seasons now, probably 2425 seasons he’s had, and he’s an executive producer, so he gets a bigger paycheck than what just a cast member.

00:21:29 Carmela

So well.

00:21:36 Allen Tiller

Would and he he also owns the Haunted Museum in Las Vegas, which has things like.

00:21:36 Carmela

No, that’s wrong.

00:21:44 Allen Tiller

Doctor Kevorkian death Van and Charles Manson TV from his cell, and all these random horrible things. But it’s won all these awards.

00:21:53 Allen Tiller

It’s it’s considered haunted and and you know, he’s he’s got enough money that he can invest in his passion, which is collecting these things and displaying them. And you know, that’s probably.

00:22:05 Allen Tiller

If you were going to go into television, most most ghost hunters aren’t actually about that. They don’t want to be.

00:22:11 Allen Tiller

Famous, you know it’s it’s like anything though really. I mean, some people do want to be famous, other people just want to find out things for themselves.

00:22:18 Allen Tiller

I’m one of those people that want to find things out. I’m not interested so much in fame. I have a job I don’t need, if you know.

00:22:22 Carmela

No, but yeah yeah.

00:22:25 Allen Tiller

That and.

00:22:26 Allen Tiller

Frames, not everything it’s cracked up to be. I can tell you that first hand after being on TV.

00:22:32 Carmela

It can work against you as well As for you, yeah.

00:22:34 Allen Tiller

It can very much work against you, and people would often don’t consider that when they enter the paranormal that once you are out in the public as a ghost hunter, yes, people will view you very differently because they think all crazy Ghost Hunter, crazy psychic, and I’m I’m not a psychic.

00:22:48 Carmela

Oh, OK.

00:22:52 Allen Tiller

And and I don’t label myself in that way. I’m more history centred than paranormal censored these days. I’ve been out investigated.

00:22:57 Carmela

Right, yeah?

00:23:00 Allen Tiller

I’ve done all of that. I’ve learned that most of the things that people think are hauntings are nothing to do with it. They’re very easily explainable, yes, so you know, I’m probably more of a sceptic.

00:23:12 Carmela

Nowadays, OK, so you want more proof, don’t you?

00:23:15 Allen Tiller

Yes, more pre. I’ve seen things I cannot explain, but that’s not to say someone else can’t explain it.

00:23:20 Carmela


00:23:20 Allen Tiller

Someone with more knowledge than me.

00:23:22 Carmela

All right, so you might you might see something you’re saying that, but if you you’d want someone else with you to see it as well to tell you if that is what you actually saw or not.

00:23:31 Allen Tiller

Yes, and an interesting thing from that perspective is my wife Karen and I were over in Ararat, the Aredale mental asylum and we were there for a horror writers convention and as part of it we had access to the entire 30 something buildings and we were walking around and we noticed this little.

00:23:41 Carmela

I can.

00:23:50 Allen Tiller

Headlights, and we thought this is a bit strange. Maybe it’s a laser light right? Couldn’t see any laser beams this lights just following us through all these hallways.

00:23:58 Allen Tiller

So Karen got out her video camera and.

00:23:59 Allen Tiller

Filmed it and we tried everything we could to debunk it and we still to this day do not know what it was.

00:24:05 Allen Tiller

It wasn’t an insect. It wasn’t a reflection. There wasn’t anything we were doing. It wasn’t a laser pointer.

00:24:05 Carmela


00:24:10 Allen Tiller

And to this day we still.

00:24:11 Allen Tiller

Don’t know what it is.

00:24:12 Carmela

You can’t work it out, can you?

00:24:12 Allen Tiller

No, and we there were other witnesses to it as well. Not just us. Two there other people, so that’s one of those things that to this day I have no.

00:24:20 Allen Tiller

Explanation incredibly haunted location, well worth checking out if you ever over in.

00:24:27 Carmela

Yeah, the only things I I have checked out is I’ve been to the Adelaide due Gaol, but not for the Ghost tour.

00:24:35 Carmela

Been there, they used to have events there like parties and stuff and we were allowed to go into the cells, but I’d go in but I couldn’t stay in because.

00:24:47 Carmela

The fear of the door shutting was enough not to go in.

00:24:51 Carmela

Went to the Melbourne Gaol.

00:24:53 Carmela

That was that was quite.

00:24:56 Carmela

Uhm, different Erie in a way and we were shut in a cell there and I didn’t like that very much at all. And it’s because it was also very dark. There was no windows in this cell.

00:25:08 Carmela

So so and you felt different things there. I don’t know if you’ve been there yourself.

00:25:14 Allen Tiller

I haven’t been to the Melbourne Gaol. I’ve been to old Geelong.

00:25:17 Carmela

The gaol.

00:25:18 Allen Tiller

I’ve spent many many hours in the old Adelaide Gaol. Yeah, I’m I’m a member of the Adelaide Gaol Preservation Society, so they run ghost tours and events in there.

00:25:24 Carmela

Oh OK, yeah.

00:25:27 Carmela

Yes, yes.

00:25:28 Allen Tiller

Still to this day.

00:25:29 Allen Tiller

And and yeah, I’ve been there at three in the morning and had all kinds of strange things happen that we could not explain.

00:25:35 Allen Tiller

Even on a tour, we were on a tour once and Karen and I were at the back. We were just observing and we could hear something shuffling behind us.

00:25:44 Allen Tiller

And every time we shine the torch back, there was no one there. We were the people at the back of the tour and we got to what they call the new building into the the gallows.

00:25:53 Allen Tiller

And the tour guide was telling her story and from above us, which isn’t a place you can’t access, right?

00:25:58 Allen Tiller

A woman voice said some swear words and everyone on the tour. 20 other people just went totally silent and we’re like looking around trying to see what it was. No one there at all.

00:26:00 Carmela

Oh, really.

00:26:05 Carmela

There no one there.

00:26:08 Carmela

See that that’ll be really frightening for me. You know it’s not.

00:26:13 Carmela

That I don’t believe.

00:26:14 Carmela

Uhm, because I’m sure it’s there. ’cause I, I don’t think I physically have seen a, you know a ghost as such closest softcam is in a brand new house that we had built and it had a hallway that went past the kitchen and the extended dot not dining but lounge.

00:26:34 Carmela

Area and then it went into another room at the back, which was another spare room that we had.

00:26:41 Carmela

And I was standing doing stuff in the kitchen and I swear there was a either a man or woman wore passed in a white suit and then just disappeared.

00:26:52 Allen Tiller

Oh, OK.

00:26:53 Carmela

And I thought well and also now wasn’t no, no, but I’m sure I could. I can still see it today happening to me, and that was out at blakeview. We had built out there.

00:27:04 Allen Tiller

Oh, OK.

00:27:06 Allen Tiller

And Blakely is not really known as a haunted area or anything like that.

00:27:09 Carmela

No, which which makes me think it was actually something that came with us.

00:27:14 Allen Tiller

Yes, so that’s what paranormal investigators called.

00:27:18 Allen Tiller

Attachment, yeah, so you know it might be a relative. It might be an object that you own is something of that person owned and they’ve stated the object. I mean, realistically, no one really knows how the paranormal works.

00:27:26 Carmela

Yes, yes.

00:27:32 Carmela

No, it’s it’s just just really. It was really eerie and I I think I might have told my husband at the time about it, but I might not have said anything for quite some months because, you know, look.

00:27:46 Allen Tiller

Yeah, if you got a reason in your brain, did I see it?

00:27:49 Carmela

Right, no, that’s right. Yeah, and I’ll get other times when the hair on my arms.

00:27:49 Allen Tiller

Or did I not see it? Yeah.

00:27:54 Carmela

Always go up. Yeah, that happens to me quite a bit, so but I you know, I just put that down with, you know something I’ve been listening to or heard or watched on TV. That’s what I do, yeah.

00:27:55 Allen Tiller

Ah yes.

00:28:06 Allen Tiller

Yep, So what people call goosebumps. The technical term for it is.

00:28:09 Carmela

Yeah, yeah.

00:28:12 Allen Tiller

Pileo erection, which is the goose bump in the hair. And as you said, music can make that happen. Memories can make that happen is not necessarily ghosts.

00:28:18 Carmela

Yes it can.

00:28:22 Carmela

No exactly.

00:28:24 Allen Tiller

It’s been associated with the paranormal, but memories and the.

00:28:28 Allen Tiller

Fight or flight mechanism in our brains going to make it.

00:28:31 Allen Tiller

Happen as well, same as cold spots. When we get that chill that we were.

00:28:31 Carmela

OK, all right.

00:28:34 Carmela

Yes, for sure, yeah.

00:28:35 Allen Tiller

In a cold spot.

00:28:36 Allen Tiller

You may be thinking, oh I’m in a haunted place so I’m getting scared. And then your brain goes all he’s scared.

00:28:41 Allen Tiller

Yeah, bang, you know you get that cold sensation and get the goosebumps and.

00:28:45 Allen Tiller

Instantly think, well it’s a ghost, which makes things worse and.

00:28:48 Allen Tiller

You know so, but it may.

00:28:49 Allen Tiller

Not be that at all.

00:28:50 Carmela

No might yeah. So I’m quite quite APT with you telling me that.

00:28:54 Carmela

It’s nothing to do with ghosts because I’m sure it’s not as other triggers involved. Yeah, I was just going to ask the Salisbury Institute next door has a ghost as well, doesn’t it?

00:28:59 Allen Tiller

There is, yes.

00:29:06 Allen Tiller

Yes, so they think the ghost is John Harvey junior OK, which I think is the second son of John Harvey, the original founder of the city of Salisbury.

00:29:17 Allen Tiller

So he was a foundation member of the Institute, so he’s a good part of the reason why it was built, so they think.

00:29:24 Allen Tiller

That he is the spirit and this gentleman walks through the main hall inspecting it. Yeah, he’s not the only ghost. The other ghost doesn’t. No one knows who it is, and that ghost is in the base.

00:29:28 Carmela

Ah, excellent.

00:29:34 Allen Tiller

Uh, so a lot of the people that work in that section will not go in that basement by themselves, but no one knows exactly who that is or what that is down there, but it’s not very nice, whatever it is.

00:29:37 Carmela

Yes, I remember you sign me.

00:29:45 Carmela

Sorry, does it actually has it ever?

00:29:47 Carmela

Hurt anyone or.

00:29:48 Allen Tiller

It’s it’s not so much it hurts people. People get paranoid and fearful, so whatever it is.

00:29:53 Carmela


00:29:54 Allen Tiller

I mean, it could be in their minds could be because you know someone told them there’s a ghost so they get scared.

00:29:58 Carmela

Yeah, well, I won’t go down there now.

00:30:01 Allen Tiller

I have had one report of someone being touched by something they couldn’t see down there, and obviously that’s gonna make you very scared and and yeah, so I don’t know if that is the same ghost that’s up.

00:30:06 Carmela

Oh yeah, that would yes.

00:30:12 Carmela

The top OK.

00:30:13 Allen Tiller

It could be.

00:30:14 Allen Tiller

But why he would be doing something entirely different in the basement to the hall itself is maybe odd.

00:30:20 Carmela

Yeah it is a bit odd. Yeah, that’s for sure.

00:30:23 Carmela

Well, UM, what?

00:30:25 Carmela

Are your plans for the future, I know.

00:30:27 Carmela

You’re busy. Very, very busy.

00:30:28 Allen Tiller

Yes, very busy. So obviously COVID has made things very hard for everyone. Yes, earlier this year my wife and I had teamed up with a group called Athletica who Do Fitness holidays, which probably seems like an odd thing for someone like me to do.

00:30:45 Allen Tiller

But we had planned to go to the USA.

00:30:48 Allen Tiller

And we were going to do a ghost adventures tour, and we’re going to go to San Francisco. And we were going to go to the Winchester Mystery House.

00:30:56 Allen Tiller

We were sleeping overnight on an old haunted aircraft carrier and then we’re going to wind their way through old cowboy towns and end up in Vegas for the museum I spoke about earlier, obviously COVID.

00:30:59 Carmela

Oh God.

00:31:07 Carmela

Yes, yes.

00:31:08 Allen Tiller

Stop that so we couldn’t do it. So we tried to think of something else that we could do with Athletica and the gentleman who runs at Rob Code is right into the paranormal.

00:31:19 Carmela

OK, that’s good.

00:31:19 Allen Tiller

And yeah, so he’s got a strong, very strong interest. He’s had some experiences and we decided that we might go to Tasmania.

00:31:27 Carmela


00:31:27 Allen Tiller

So in January next year we are going to take.

00:31:31 Allen Tiller

Members of the public.

00:31:31 Allen Tiller

With us, if they get on the Athletic’s website, they can see how to book. We are, therefore, I believe, five nights don’t quote me on that and.

00:31:39 Carmela

Right, OK, now I have to go. I’m gonna write that.

00:31:42 Carmela

Down so I was ever recorded.

00:31:43 Allen Tiller

Yeah, Athletica is the website and you’ll see on the top it says Tasmania paranormal adventure, so Karen and I are leading tours investigations. We’re going just to haunted places to walk through them.

00:31:48 Carmela


00:31:54 Carmela


00:31:56 Allen Tiller

And yeah, so we’re investigating Willow Court asylum. And as you probably aware, Tasmania is the well hobarts, the second oldest city in the country and has hundreds of people were hung in the gaols there.

00:32:06 Carmela

So it’s bound to have a few.

00:32:09 Allen Tiller

So we’re going to some of the most haunted gaols we’re going to Richmond Gaol, which is the oldest gaol in.

00:32:14 Allen Tiller

In Tasmania and we’re going to visit the Richmond Bridge.

00:32:14 Carmela


00:32:17 Allen Tiller

Which has a really fascinating ghost story of a guy named George Grover.

00:32:21 Allen Tiller

And he was a flagellator. Also he whipped all the other convicts. He was a convict himself.

00:32:24 Carmela

Oh yeah, but that was his job. Ah

00:32:26 Allen Tiller

That his job was.

00:32:26 Allen Tiller

To whip them.

00:32:28 Allen Tiller

And eventually they had enough of his whippings, and they threw him over the bridge and killed him.

00:32:32 Allen Tiller

And he’s been seen on that bridge ever since. So we are.

00:32:34 Allen Tiller

Visiting that bridge, and yeah, we spend. We’re also spending two full days in port.

00:32:42 Carmela

Oh yeah, well, OK.

00:32:42 Allen Tiller

So and yeah, and Philadelphia is very, very haunted. We’re visiting the Isle of the Dead as well, which is a cemetery on an island with all the convicts buried there haunted as well so.

00:32:50 Carmela

Oh wow, you better cheque everybody heart before we get there.

00:32:53 Allen Tiller

Yeah, yeah, so yeah, it should be an interesting trip. So if that’s yeah on Athletica and you can just you know, jump online and and either on my Facebook page or on athletics page and see it and get all the details. There’s a full itinerary you can download and see where we’re going.

00:33:09 Carmela

That’s right, and you’ve got your web.

00:33:12 Allen Tiller

I don’t have a website currently, but I do have the haunts of Adelaide blog which comes out every Tuesday night and that’s up to you. I think in about 3 weeks will be 9 years. I’ve been writing that for.

00:33:14 Carmela

No OK.

00:33:17 Carmela

OK, all right.

00:33:23 Carmela

Oh wow.

00:33:24 Allen Tiller

So there’s hundreds of stories. It’s not just ghosts, there’s crime. There’s history anything I’m interested in at the time that I’m up. That’s interesting.

00:33:31 Carmela

And you wrote about, yeah, yeah.

00:33:32 Allen Tiller

Yeah, and I’ll write about it and and.

00:33:34 Allen Tiller

You’ll find some stories that are in my books are also on there, but they’re a shorter version because you can only fit.

00:33:39 Allen Tiller

So much on.

00:33:40 Allen Tiller

A blog so I know for a fact that the Adelaide Arcade is on is actually one of the first places I wrote about and that spans over about.

00:33:40 Carmela

True, yeah.

00:33:46 Carmela


00:33:48 Allen Tiller

Six weeks on there, but in my haunts of Adelaide book, it’s probably a third of the book. There’s so many stories.

00:33:54 Carmela


00:33:55 Carmela

No wow yeah.

00:33:56 Allen Tiller

From that place.

00:33:57 Allen Tiller

So yeah, you get more value in the book.

00:33:59 Allen Tiller

Then you do the website.

00:34:00 Carmela

Yeah, I wonder if people like during the day if they walked like down that Adelaide, OK, whether they would feel something and not know what happened.

00:34:09 Allen Tiller

Well, it’s possible.

00:34:11 Allen Tiller

One of the stories in the book was from the Haunted Adelaide Residency that I.

00:34:15 Allen Tiller

Did and one of the ladies said that back in the 60s before the 60s they didn’t have the second internal story, so it was just a single story.

00:34:25 Allen Tiller

But and when they were.

00:34:25 Allen Tiller

Building it, you weren’t allowed.

00:34:26 Allen Tiller

To go up there, she worked there and she was there before anyone any of the work.

00:34:28 Carmela


00:34:31 Allen Tiller

Is anyone like that and she was going to where she works and she looked up and there was a man wearing a blue uniform looking at her and.

00:34:37 Allen Tiller

As she.

00:34:37 Allen Tiller

Looked at him, he disappeared.

00:34:39 Allen Tiller

So that’s what that’s in the book, and there’s other stories about workers up in the top poltergeist type activity happened to them.

00:34:46 Allen Tiller

And things happened day or night that it doesn’t make any.

00:34:49 Allen Tiller

Difference wow I I become good friends with the owners of the Manhattan dry cleaners.

00:34:53 Carmela

Yes, yes.

00:34:54 Allen Tiller

And the very family they’ve been there since 1970.

00:34:56 Allen Tiller

6 and if you happen to be walking through the arcade, pop your head in and say hello and ask him about Francis Clooney and they’ll tell you some of their stories ’cause things happen there all the time.

00:34:57 Carmela


00:35:06 Carmela

Oh my God, sorry it’s a constant.

00:35:07 Allen Tiller

Day and night.

00:35:09 Allen Tiller

It is very much yet it it’s never ended since he died in 1887. He’s seen constantly heard constantly.

00:35:10 Carmela


00:35:13 Carmela

Oh well.

00:35:16 Carmela

It’s amazing.

00:35:17 Carmela

Yeah, so then I’ll ask you a quick question.

00:35:23 Carmela

If you happen to have a ghost in your house.

00:35:25 Carmela

It’s not that I have one now, but you know, like if you happen to have a ghost, is there any chance to help them to move on?

00:35:33 Allen Tiller

There is chances to help them move on on.

00:35:37 Allen Tiller

Obviously you want to get a good psychic who could communicate with them, Ghost hunt. Some ghost hunters can help.

00:35:43 Allen Tiller

As well, I generally say to people. If you think your house is haunted, keep a diary of what’s.

00:35:48 Allen Tiller

Going on.

00:35:48 Carmela

OK, makes sense.

00:35:49 Allen Tiller

So get a diary right in the time, the day who was there, what happened and then if you get a ghost hunter in, they can use that diary to find out you know what times things are happening, what’s happening too, and then use that to try and do.

00:36:03 Allen Tiller

Bunk at 1st and not everyone likes their ghosts being debunked. They want to believe it’s a ghost.

00:36:08 Carmela

OK, yeah.

00:36:10 Allen Tiller

Other people are happy for it to be debunked. Yes, there’s a lovely lady named Jane Black. It from a team called Whisper here in Adelaide and she does a lot of fantastic work helping people.

00:36:21 Allen Tiller

Through their hauntings, a lot of you’ll find a lot of ghost hunters, and psychics will come in, and they’ll do what they do, and then they leave you to.

00:36:30 Allen Tiller

It, whereas Jane will stay on and she will keep checking in every couple of months to make sure you find, make sure nothing is happening. So she she’s I think I know for a fact one case has been going for four years and that’s

00:36:30 Carmela

Right, Yep.

00:36:40 Carmela

Oh wow.

00:36:40 Allen Tiller

Just here, checking in making sure they’re still flying.

00:36:41 Carmela

Making sure yeah.

00:36:42 Allen Tiller

So yeah, she’s worth checking out one day if you.

00:36:45 Allen Tiller

Have the time.

00:36:45 Carmela

Yeah, no, that would be interesting. And yeah, and I just suddenly thought of another question. Not you might have a new house like I was describing before.

00:36:54 Carmela

Can you have a ghost happening in a new house that just been on oldland old old think situation maybe?

00:37:01 Allen Tiller

Maybe yes, so I often get reports of hauntings in brand new houses on brand new estates, and people always think first.

00:37:09 Allen Tiller

Well, there’s been no one here, but they forget about indigenous people for starters, so it could be an indigenous.

00:37:13 Carmela

That’s right.

00:37:15 Allen Tiller

Spirit it, it could be a spirit of the land which people don’t consider, but they also forget that.

00:37:22 Allen Tiller

Relatives may come to visit so dead relatives might come to visit. There’s might be something attached to something so.

00:37:24 Carmela

Oh, OK.

00:37:25 Carmela

Let’s wait.

00:37:29 Allen Tiller

Uhm, say an old piano. Yes, you buy a piano you don’t know its history. There might be someone attached to that piano and.

00:37:33 Carmela

9 not at all, yeah.

00:37:35 Allen Tiller

They come in.

00:37:35 Allen Tiller

And play it so it is possible brand new.

00:37:38 Allen Tiller

Houses can be haunted.

00:37:39 Carmela

Yes wow, it’s amazing look this has just been amazing. I mean look, we’ve been chatting for quite some time now and I don’t think we’ve touched the surface.

00:37:52 Carmela

So they should go.

00:37:53 Carmela

Out and and cheque your Facebook page and you know follow up what? What other areas?

00:38:01 Allen Tiller

Now, the only other thing that I have to mention.

00:38:03 Carmela

OK, go ahead.

00:38:03 Allen Tiller

I promise that I will.

00:38:05 Allen Tiller

Is obviously we were talking about the tour the Salisbury Tour, which is the haunting history of Salisbury Tours. If people are interested in doing it, it’s free and it will always remain free so they can go to the Salisbury Community Hub which is on John Street and they can pick up a book. There’s a book there for free, or if they choose to on their phone if they go to.

00:38:10 Carmela

That’s wrong.

00:38:19 Carmela

Yep, Yep.
That’s right.

00:38:25 Allen Tiller Yep, they can actually download the tour and I will guide them around the city of Salisbury. Fire the audio.

00:38:33 Carmela

Yeah, yeah, it’s.

00:38:34 Carmela

Excellent, I’ve got it myself. I’ve put it on my.

00:38:36 Carmela

Phone so no, everybody should do that. I nearly forgot about that.

00:38:40 Carmela

Thank you very much for coming Allen, and you’ve been very, very thoughtful.

00:38:42 Allen Tiller

Thank you very much for having me.